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New Dirt Track Late Model series in the South

 
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DannyRay121



Joined: 10 Jul 2018
Posts: 72
Location: IN

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:52 am    Post subject: New Dirt Track Late Model series in the South Reply with quote

I am thinking that there is a need for a new Dirt Track auto racing series in the South, that would include Tenn, WV, NC, SC, Ga, Ala, and Miss.
NASCAR started out as a dirt track racing series mainly in the South and was very successful, so successful they kept searching for larger and larger venues and that lead to asphalt tracks then to Super Speedways and in 1970 they ran their last dirt track race and fittingly, was won by Richard Petty.
Nascar only has a few short tracks left on their schedule and Richmond got bigger, Bristol became the largest stadium in Tenn, and Martinsville is still hanging on.
The two largest Dirt Track Series have events in the South but force teams to travel all over the country. The costs of traveling is too expensive for most teams that do not have huge sponsors.
So I do believe that a Great Dirt Track Series that is centered in the South would produce a lot of interest. Enough to warrant television rights.
Keeping the traveling expenses down, but having a circuit that includes some of the best, most modern, and popular tracks is they key to success.
What I suggest is for the Series to include paying a percentage of the TV contracts profits to each race track, a percentage going to each event payout, and a percentage going to the championship points.

Anyone interested in these ideas ?
Please suggest the best tracks in this region that you would like to see a part of the circuit.
I would like to see about 15 tracks each having 2 dates a piece creating a 30 race schedule.
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14car



Joined: 17 Jan 2014
Posts: 15
Location: Savannah Tn.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool!!! Good luck with this, hope it works. I'm a Factory/Street Stock guy, but anything to keep the fans coming to the tracks is a worthy endeavor.

We ALL need a place to race.
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Doc88D



Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 769
Location: Waterloo, Alabama

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like your enthusiasm, but the Southern All Stars have been doing this for years. Yet they can never get more than 2-3 teams that actually run for a season points title. The Super Late Model in its current form is just not in healthy numbers in the Mid South Area. You have the Mississippi State series, Comp Cam Series and the Ray Cook stuff also struggling to get full fields of cars. The Crate late model has filled the void that has been created by the dying Super Late Model counts. Itís unfortunate, but it is reality...
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DannyRay121



Joined: 10 Jul 2018
Posts: 72
Location: IN

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I am aware of that racing series and I commend them for putting that series together, and you are right about the dying off of Super Late Models, I have been saying for 15 years or so that the expenses to build, maintain and compete were getting totally out of control and was ruining the sport.
I do not think crate motors are the answer, a great idea, yes, but the truth is those motors are made with a plus or minus 6 % , and that means a motor on the plus 6% is 12 % better than the minus 6% , In an 8 cylinder motor each cylinder is 12.5 % , so that means the difference of running 8 cylinders vs 7 cylinders. Teams can buy several, dyno test to see which is the best, and that is expensive. Some teams can pay to have their crate "hopped up" using a dyno, and there have been rumors there were ways to cheat, ( fake inspection bolts). Teams are not allowed to freshen up their own motor or make simple repairs . The tracks have to train inspectors, and its hard to get each tech trained the same, (and impartial)
I do like the idea of a crate as tracks and series can now use the price of a crate as putting a claim on motors. Either a crate or home built, the claim is the same. That is very fair.
If I bought a crate motor I could run it as it was, then make repairs as needed and as it got more races on it I could freshen it up and at end of year I could rebuild it myself or have a speed shop do it for me. Either way, if it is claimed, I can simply use that money to buy a new crate motor.
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Doc88D



Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 769
Location: Waterloo, Alabama

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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racingnut35



Joined: 10 May 2011
Posts: 87
Location: star,ms

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I cant stand crate models although I know why the class was created. Watching a crate run around a track sounding like not much more than a street stock is hard to stomach. Heck, I've gotten to like modifieds more because of the open motor rule. Forgive me if I like to hear a motor screaming down the straightaways. One thing that annoys me to no end is that late models, crate models and 602 sportsman all are the same chassis/sheetmetal with the exceptions being suspension and motors. Newcomers cant tell the difference other than the sound of an 800+ hp engine. I was told by a driver of a 602 sportsman that the reason that class was created was because the cost to run a crate model went up so much. He seems to think the sportsman class will weed out the crate model just as the crate model has weeded out the late models badly.
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Dawson0610



Joined: 30 Jul 2015
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wish tracks still ran Supers weekly. Winchester and Duck River have both had pretty good car counts, 10-15, any time they've run supers weekly, and i know Moulton had about 8-10 when they ran them.
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DannyRay121



Joined: 10 Jul 2018
Posts: 72
Location: IN

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:07 pm    Post subject: Super Late Models Reply with quote

To me its a joke saying 10 to 15 cars are a good car count. Back in the day when Late Models were the top division , factory body, hoped up BIG BLOCK motors, wide wheels and tires, these cars were packing tracks everywhere.
The cars were affordable, the payout didn't pay out a whole lot and the general admission and pit gate fees were very affordable and the competition was tremendous.
I am telling you the truth, you could afford a competitive Late Model for what it costs for the cost of just the 4 shocks of today's Super Late Model.
Advertisers and Sponsors could afford to give a team $400- $600 for racing tires for the season.
In 1975 I was working with some friends of mine, we bought a 1965 Chevelle for $250, we went to junk yard and bought a 3/4 ton truck rear end, a truck 3 speed manual transmission, built our our roll cage and added weight jacks. We bought several junkyard small block motors, 283, and 327's and with a little speed shop work their uncle build a bad ass mouse motor. We bought two 15" deep dish corvette Rally wheels for right side and two 14 inch shallow wheels for the left side, Commache tires were about $35.00 each. We had less than $2500 in the complete car and it won a Street Stock feature at the Louisville Fairgrounds and at the end of the year we took that car as is and finished 10th at Brownstown Dirt Track in the LATE MODEL division. we were in a heated battle for 10th with a 57 chevy with 18"wide tires and a 427 cubic inch motor. It would pass us on the straights but we could pass it in the turns as it ran wide and we ran low.
Those were the fun days.
We eventually fielded the first ed Howe Left Loader late Model in this area and each week everyone of us were not only paying our own way into the pits, our own memberships, but also were contributing $50 to $100 each, 5 of us us and the driver fathers. Yes even with a $2,000 a year sponsor we were spending at least $300 a week among us on top of what we won to field this car.
Yes we won several Trophy Dashes, Fast Heats, and even a Feature.
That was not fun ! I was so into it that I made working on this car my main job and so was the drivers brother., although not getting paid and we did odd jobs to make money, but nothing came before that car. Nothing !
We had raced in one ASA event at Salem Speedway, our first attempt on a high banked half mile track and we finished 10th. We made money and were going to compete in more ASA races but then they went to V-6 motors. We could not afford to race locally with a V-8 and build a V-6 for 3 or 4 ASA events per year.
By the time I gave up working for my friend, they were running at the new Louisville track where many of the top teams had over $50,000 motors.
Insanity had taken over Super Late Model racing on asphalt and soon that spread to dirt tracks as well.
THE FUTURE of racing will be Late Model racing with a $5,000 motor claim rule racing for $5,000 to win for Monthly Special Events.
Any Track owners, LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING, THAT IS THE FUTURE.
I am open to any discussion on this !
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racingnut35



Joined: 10 May 2011
Posts: 87
Location: star,ms

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with engine claimer rules is that no matter what the claimer amount is owners/drivers will spend whatever it takes to win,even losing money on a claimer engine they have. I have personally seen this before at a local track years ago and eventually they went away with the rule. Cheating and spending exuberant amounts of money on racing will never go away. It's all about the have/have nots unfortunately.
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DannyRay121



Joined: 10 Jul 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am talking about a promoter with balls that will make the claim rule work !
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Dawson0610



Joined: 30 Jul 2015
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Super Late Models Reply with quote

DannyRay121 wrote:
To me its a joke saying 10 to 15 cars are a good car count. Back in the day when Late Models were the top division , factory body, hoped up BIG BLOCK motors, wide wheels and tires, these cars were packing tracks everywhere.
The cars were affordable, the payout didn't pay out a whole lot and the general admission and pit gate fees were very affordable and the competition was tremendous.
I am telling you the truth, you could afford a competitive Late Model for what it costs for the cost of just the 4 shocks of today's Super Late Model.
Advertisers and Sponsors could afford to give a team $400- $600 for racing tires for the season.
In 1975 I was working with some friends of mine, we bought a 1965 Chevelle for $250, we went to junk yard and bought a 3/4 ton truck rear end, a truck 3 speed manual transmission, built our our roll cage and added weight jacks. We bought several junkyard small block motors, 283, and 327's and with a little speed shop work their uncle build a bad ass mouse motor. We bought two 15" deep dish corvette Rally wheels for right side and two 14 inch shallow wheels for the left side, Commache tires were about $35.00 each. We had less than $2500 in the complete car and it won a Street Stock feature at the Louisville Fairgrounds and at the end of the year we took that car as is and finished 10th at Brownstown Dirt Track in the LATE MODEL division. we were in a heated battle for 10th with a 57 chevy with 18"wide tires and a 427 cubic inch motor. It would pass us on the straights but we could pass it in the turns as it ran wide and we ran low.
Those were the fun days.
We eventually fielded the first ed Howe Left Loader late Model in this area and each week everyone of us were not only paying our own way into the pits, our own memberships, but also were contributing $50 to $100 each, 5 of us us and the driver fathers. Yes even with a $2,000 a year sponsor we were spending at least $300 a week among us on top of what we won to field this car.
Yes we won several Trophy Dashes, Fast Heats, and even a Feature.
That was not fun ! I was so into it that I made working on this car my main job and so was the drivers brother., although not getting paid and we did odd jobs to make money, but nothing came before that car. Nothing !
We had raced in one ASA event at Salem Speedway, our first attempt on a high banked half mile track and we finished 10th. We made money and were going to compete in more ASA races but then they went to V-6 motors. We could not afford to race locally with a V-8 and build a V-6 for 3 or 4 ASA events per year.
By the time I gave up working for my friend, they were running at the new Louisville track where many of the top teams had over $50,000 motors.
Insanity had taken over Super Late Model racing on asphalt and soon that spread to dirt tracks as well.
THE FUTURE of racing will be Late Model racing with a $5,000 motor claim rule racing for $5,000 to win for Monthly Special Events.
Any Track owners, LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING, THAT IS THE FUTURE.
I am open to any discussion on this !


Its a weekly race not a lucas oil or World of outlaws race, you can't expect 30 cars to show up for a weekly race. Local tracks have given up on running supers every week, if tracks would run them and stick with it I think we could see guys getting back into Super Late Model racing weekly
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Late_Model_Mark



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 3726

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At Talladega we run Supers weekly, always will it seems, we stick to our guns on the class. Yes the car counts are an issue, this is the deal in 2018. Just an observation from the tower, right now at this time, there is no room for another touring series in the South. Maybe in the future there could be as the author of this post has some nice ideas. The operating costs for a weekly track such as ours at TST, are quite large involving many factors. The numbers to run a weekly show from all aspects is scary, yet we soldier on.


If it was a failing option to run Supers weekly, I believe we would not. But if you look at our schedule of just not weekly SLM events, the special events calendar for the SLM class is pretty nice. Such as Sat night's "Twin 25's" for the SLM division. Not another track in the South does that type of event that I know of. Throw in the SAS shows, Ice Bowl and such, seems to work for us at TST. Always room for improvement.



Late Model Mark
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Late_Model_Mark



Joined: 26 Jun 2008
Posts: 3726

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At Talladega we run Supers weekly, always will it seems, we stick to our guns on the class. Yes the car counts are an issue, this is the deal in 2018. Just an observation from the tower, right now at this time, there is no room for another touring series in the South. Maybe in the future there could be as the author of this post has some nice ideas. The operating costs for a weekly track such as ours at TST, are quite large involving many factors. The numbers to run a weekly show from all aspects is scary, yet we soldier on.


If it was a failing option to run Supers weekly, I believe we would not. But if you look at our schedule of just not weekly SLM events, the special events calendar for the SLM class is pretty nice. Such as Sat night's "Twin 25's" for the SLM division. Not another track in the South does that type of event that I know of. Throw in the SAS shows, Ice Bowl and such, seems to work for us at TST. Always room for improvement.



Late Model Mark
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racingnut35



Joined: 10 May 2011
Posts: 87
Location: star,ms

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twin 25's for slm would be awesome. I honestly believe that there are a lot of slm drivers that would love to be closer to home instead of traveling all over the place and stuff like that would be good for them if the payout is pretty good. There are some tracks that would rather use their fb page to get everyone to share about some big race coming up. While there's nothing wrong with this to help out in advertising it's too lazy on their part if this is their sole means of advertising. I personally know a former track owner that told me that it cost a lot to radio advertise but it needs to be done some.
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